NEW - Quizlet Flashcards: click here for link to vocabulary cards from this episode
Transcript:
[00:00:05.460] - Oliver (Host)
Welcome back to another episode of English and Beyond, an intermediate to advanced-level podcast for learners of English as a Foreign Language. If there's anything in the episode you don't understand, you can find a transcript available at www.morethanalanguage.com. You can also find at the same web address, Quizlet flashcards to help you learn the most difficult vocabulary for this episode. Before I begin with the episode, I do want to say I'm sorry I have a cold again. It reminds me of when I was a teacher in the school and I had a cold virtually every week, but I, like everyone else in Spain at the moment, have a cold. So I'm sorry about that. I have with me today, Franziska. Franziska has returned to the podcast, and we're going to be discussing something that is very important to her. Tattoos.
[00:01:06.910] - Oliver (Host)
So tattoos are a fascinating subject, blending ancient traditions with modern self-expression. And today, I'm being joined, as I said, by my friend Franziska, who, well, let's just say she perfectly embodies the subject. Do you see the play on words there, the pun? She "embodies" tattoos. That's because when I met Franziska, she had no tattoos at all, but now her body is almost completely covered in them, and she's become an expert.
[00:01:38.350] - Oliver (Host)
Her transformation over the years has been fascinating to watch, and it's given me plenty to think about regarding my own relationship with tattoos, or rather, my lack of one until now. Despite my indecision, tattoos have always intrigued, they've interested, they've fascinated me. They're a lot more than just ink on skin. They can tell stories, they can mark moments, they can signal aspects of identity incredibly quickly. In this episode, we're going to explore tattoos from all angles. Their fascinating history, their cultural significance, their importance, their value, their controversies, and of course, my own hesitations about getting one.
[00:02:24.970] - Oliver (Host)
First, let's start with the word itself: "tattoo". It's an interesting one, isn't it? The word entered the English language in the late 18th century, borrowed from the Polynesian word "tatau", which means "to strike or to mark". This makes perfect sense when you consider how tattoos were traditionally applied, they were traditionally completed, in Polynesian culture by striking a sharp tool into the skin to embed, to insert pigment. Captain James Cook, a British explorer, and his crew brought the word back to Britain after their voyages in the Pacific, and it's stuck with us ever since.
[00:03:04.910] - Oliver (Host)
Before that, tattoos in Europe were often referred to as marks or even stigmata, depending on the context, depending on the background. The tattoos themselves predate, they're older than, the word by thousands of years. The oldest evidence we have of tattooing dates back more than 5,000 years, in fact. Ötzi, and that's an attempt at a German pronunciation, of an O with an umlaut, Ötzi the Iceman, a mummy discovered in the Alps, had over 60 tattoos on his body. These weren't elaborate, complicated or detailed designs like we see today; most were simple lines and crosses. Researchers believe they may have had a therapeutic, a healing or a medicinal purpose, like an ancient form of acupuncture, to relieve or to reduce joint pain. It's fascinating to think about how widespread, how common, how universal the practise of tattooing was, even in ancient times. Archaeologists have found evidence of tattooing on mummies from Egypt, Peru, and even Siberia. While the designs varied, they were different, the purposes often overlapped. Tattoos were used for spiritual protection, as markers of status or achievement, and even as preparation for the afterlife. In Polynesia, tattooing was deeply symbolic and often served as a rite of passage.
[00:04:39.470] - Oliver (Host)
In Japan, traditional Irezumi (apologies for the pronunciation), tattoos were connected to both spirituality and punishment. In some areas, criminals were tattooed as a form of public shaming, a far cry from the intricate, the complex and the detailed beautiful designs that became hallmarks of Japanese tattoo art later on. Then there's the connection to war and battle. Many ancient cultures, from the Celts to the Native Americans, used tattoos to mark warriors, instilling fear in enemies - that is, trying to make their enemies feel scared - as well as creating a sense of unity, a sense of togetherness within their ranks. Tattoos were more than just decoration: they were identity, culture, and survival inked into the skin.
[00:05:30.820] - Oliver (Host)
Fast forward to today, and tattoos have evolved, they've developed, they've changed into a global phenomenon. They're no longer confined or restricted to specific cultures or purposes. Instead, they've become a way for individuals to express themselves, to celebrate their stories, and to wear their identities quite literally on their sleeves. Take Britain as an example. Just a few decades ago tattoos were heavily stigmatised - they were judged and disapproved of. They were associated with sailors, soldiers, and unfairly with criminals. But now, tattoos are mainstream - they're normal and widely accepted. In fact, recent statistics statistics suggests that nearly one in three Britons aged 18 to 35 has at least one tattoo. That's extraordinary when you consider how taboo, how unacceptable tattoos used to be quite recently in the UK.
[00:06:31.110] - Oliver (Host)
However, this change isn't the case everywhere. In Japan, for instance, tattoos are still closely associated with the yakuza, with the organised crime groups. Many public baths, gyms, and even some beaches prohibit or ban tattooed individuals from entering regardless of their background. Similarly, in other parts of Asia, tattoos can carry connotations or associations of rebellion or lawlessness. It's interesting to see how cultural perceptions of tattoos vary so dramatically from one place to another. But even in places like Britain, where tattoos have become much more accepted, they're still not everyone's cup of tea - not everyone is a fan of them. I think I'm right in saying that my mum, for example, has a bit of an aversion (to), a bit of a dislike for, tattoos. Interestingly, she didn't mind when I got four piercings in various different places over the years, but the idea of me coming home with a tattoo would displease her, I think.
[00:07:33.980] - Oliver (Host)
I imagine that this maybe reflects a deeper generational divide. Many parents still view tattoos as too permanent, too rebellious, or simply too different from the way that they were raised. And that idea of permanence is maybe a fair one. Naturally, with the rise of tattoos comes the rise of tattoo regret of wishing that you hadn't had one. Studies show that a significant number of people with tattoos eventually wish that they hadn't gotten at least one of them. This has led to a booming, a growing tattoo removal industry, with clinics popping up all over the place. Laser removal technology has come a long way, but it's still an expensive and often painful process. This is where my own indecision, my own hesitation comes into play. I've been tempted, I've been drawn to getting a tattoo for years, but I've never actually gone through with it. Part of the problem is that I'm a classic over-thinker, someone who thinks too much. What if I choose the wrong design? What if I hate it in a year, or 10 years? What if it doesn't suit me, what if it doesn't suit me forever? There's also something about the permanence, the lasting nature of tattoos that worries me.
[00:08:53.330] - Oliver (Host)
I admire people like Franziska who can commit themselves, bind themselves to such bold, lasting choices. She's made her body a canvas, like material for an artist, and it's genuinely interesting to see how each tattoo adds to her story. But for me, the idea of looking down at something I regret has been enough to keep me from booking an appointment for the moment. Why am I talking about this now? Well, it's not been long since we had the new year, and like many people, I've made a few resolutions or promises to myself. I didn't actually include this one in my New Year's episode, but I've decided to stop overthinking and start committing to things that scare me. Getting a tattoo, which is a resolution I did include, feels like the perfect way to symbolise, to represent that new resolution. It's something I've wanted for years, but I've held back on out of fear. I think I'm finally ready to take the plunge to go for it. Now, Franziska and I are going to discuss her journey with tattoos, her thoughts on changing cultural attitudes and her advice for anybody considering their first tattoo, namely me. But for now, I'll leave you with this: whether you're tattooed, tattoo curious, an admirer, or even a hater, tattoos offer a unique window into who we are and who we want to be seen to be. So, Franziska, welcome back.
[00:10:25.040] - Franziska (Guest)
Hallo!
[00:10:26.480] - Oliver (Host)
Hello! How are you?
[00:10:29.550] - Franziska (Guest)
Very good and very happy to be back.
[00:10:32.120] - Oliver (Host)
Well, you're not just back, but you're here in Valencia.
[00:10:34.200] - Franziska (Guest)
I am here in Valencia for the first time, and I love Valencia.
[00:10:37.340] - Oliver (Host)
And only your second time in Spain.
[00:10:39.180] - Franziska (Guest)
Only my second time in Spain, yeah.
[00:10:40.920] - Oliver (Host)
One of the things that you said to me, that you keep noticing everywhere on the streets - what are they?
[00:10:46.090] - Franziska (Guest)
Orange trees, and I love them.
[00:10:47.920] - Oliver (Host)
That's not what I was talking. I was talking about tattoo parlours.
[00:10:52.310] - Franziska (Guest)
Yes, I love the tattoo parlours, but I also love the orange trees.
[00:10:56.300] - Oliver (Host)
But this is an episode about tattoos and not inedible oranges, oranges that you can't eat.
[00:11:00.980] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, you told me. It's disappointing.
[00:11:02.600] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, well, César told me. I mean, I assume that it's true, rather than, I don't know, Valencians protecting their property by telling all the tourists...
[00:11:10.580] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, maybe actually. Exactly.
[00:11:13.790] - Oliver (Host)
So, I think you're my first guest to do two episodes. So thank you.
[00:11:22.410] - Franziska (Guest)
Thank you for inviting me back.
[00:11:24.510] - Oliver (Host)
And it's particularly brave because if you haven't listened to Franziska's first episode, you should It's quite funny because it's all about how much she hates her accent in English. I think it's episode number 7. I recommend it. I like it. It's a good one, I think. So, about, Franziska, tattoos - other than languages, the other major interest in your life!
[00:11:49.330] - Franziska (Guest)
Yes.
[00:11:50.360] - Oliver (Host)
Why did you get your first tattoo? Had you always wanted a tattoo?
[00:11:55.670] - Franziska (Guest)
Maybe not always, but I wanted a tattoo many years before I I got my first one. And I got it relatively late. I think I was 29. I had been interested in tattoos for a few years. Then it felt very exciting to finally take that big decision. I think it was mainly because I had just moved to London, and there are still, and there were, especially at that time, many amazing tattoo artists in London. It's probably one of the best cities to get tattooed in Europe. It was a very exciting tattoo scene. I found a tattoo artist whose style I really, really liked. Then I was really sure that I wanted to get a tattoo by him, and that's how I made a decision.
[00:12:44.210] - Oliver (Host)
Wuv-wuv-wovely. Lovely, wonderful, I was going to say. When did you get that first tattoo?
[00:12:49.390] - Franziska (Guest)
It was 2016.
[00:12:51.310] - Oliver (Host)
How many tattoos do you have done?
[00:12:53.010] - Franziska (Guest)
Well, actually, I get a question quite often, and I have never counted them because some connect - so, I have two very big tattoos, which I would count as two tattoos, but they're massive because they're both cover... Each leg is covered by one big tattoo. I have many tattoos now. My body is quite covered.
[00:13:15.020] - Oliver (Host)
Basically, we say in English, "from head to toe", your head has been thus far spared.
[00:13:23.250] - Franziska (Guest)
It has been spared. My hands have been spared and my feet.
[00:13:27.540] - Oliver (Host)
Everything else basically is covered.
[00:13:29.130] - Franziska (Guest)
Yes, but I do have space spaces in between my tattoos. I'm not one of those heavily tattooed people who don't even have spaces between the tattoos. I have spaces, but each part of my body is tattooed.
[00:13:39.890] - Oliver (Host)
This is not something I would say to virtually anybody else, but we have a very honest relationship. Would you say that you are addicted to tattoos? Because from nothing... When did you say it was, the first one?
[00:13:54.520] - Franziska (Guest)
2016.
[00:13:55.130] - Oliver (Host)
God, that's crazy.
[00:13:57.220] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, it's nine years.
[00:13:59.080] - Oliver (Host)
Because it, you know, you said 2016, and I thought, "Okay, so in four years, you got all these tattoos." But actually, it's nine.
[00:14:05.120] - Franziska (Guest)
Oh, it's not that crazy.
[00:14:06.320] - Oliver (Host)
Wow, nine years. Yeah, but it's crazy how I'm stuck in 2020.
[00:14:10.690] - Franziska (Guest)
But also, it is true that I got loads of tattoos in those first four years, I'd say, because then COVID hit, and then I did take a break. I don't think I got any tattoo in 2020, and only maybe two or three in 2021. So I did take, I did have to take a break in between,
[00:14:30.180] - Oliver (Host)
OK, so...
[00:14:30.220] - Franziska (Guest)
I did a lot in the first few years.
[00:14:34.330] - Oliver (Host)
The other big thing about tattoos as well is you're not just, you're not someone who loves pain.
[00:14:39.220] - Franziska (Guest)
No, exactly. I have a very low pain threshold, so I really can't say I'm addicted to getting a tattoo because the process of getting a tattoo is not fun for me. I like talking to the artist about the placement, about the design, and deciding for the tattoo, but I don't like getting it and feeling the pain at all.
[00:15:02.790] - Oliver (Host)
The other thing that causes pain when you get tattoos is, of course, the cost.
[00:15:07.980] - Franziska (Guest)
Oh, yeah, that caused a lot of pain as well. Yeah, that's true.
[00:15:11.680] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, because you're quite unusual because all of your tattoos, as I think you said, they've all come from one artist.
[00:15:16.040] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, which is really unusual, I think.
[00:15:18.430] - Oliver (Host)
Probably bought him a house, essentially. Like a deposit for a house.
[00:15:22.880] - Franziska (Guest)
To be fair, I have to say. I always got a special price because I got so many tattoos, but it did, it did add up.
[00:15:30.640] - Oliver (Host)
You are basically a walking advertisement for him now.
[00:15:33.280] - Franziska (Guest)
In a way, yeah. But even though, because I got so many tattoos, it did add up for me financially, and it has been a lot.
[00:15:41.330] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah. But I think there's nothing else that has made you, to my knowledge, as happy as this.
[00:15:46.380] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, I think I am a person who is not very often very excited about things. So, erm...but I've been always very excited about my tattoos. I can't say in general about tattoos. I do I have tattoos, but it's not a super deep interest of mine. It's not like something I would look for in a partner or something like that. It's just for me, it excites me for myself.
[00:16:09.530] - Oliver (Host)
Which is, I think, almost like the definition of something healthy, right? You're doing it for yourself. It's not something you insist on about other people. It's just something that you do and you enjoy for yourself and you're relaxed about. There are a few things that you and I, in general, are relaxed about, right? Maybe that's part of the reason that I want to get one because I think that it's - Like I said in my little speech, an opportunity to demonstrate that I am not always as anxious and highly strung.
[00:16:39.340] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah. I think in this aspect, we are quite similar because I am a very big over-thinker as well. We actually, in a different context, talked about this today that I've never made a major decision regarding my appearance. I would wear makeup and stuff, but I wouldn't really colour my hair, or I don't really have piercings.
[00:16:59.690] - Oliver (Host)
The haircut is the same.
[00:17:02.400] - Franziska (Guest)
I've had my haircut since you've met me, actually. I had more or less the same haircut. I'm a big over-thinker as well. I overthought for a long time what tattoo I wanted. It helped me a lot to see the style of an artist I really admired and liked. That helped me in my decision. Then it made me feel very powerful and strong. I loved the feeling of having been committed and having decided for something.
[00:17:29.770] - Oliver (Host)
It's funny because I have probably, when I wanted to maybe express myself in a not exactly but similar way, I probably have gone for piercings on the basis that they are semi-permanent. At the moment, I have two piercings at the moment. I've had over my life four, but they come and they go. You can get them repierced or the hole stays there. But I, for example, had my eyebrow pierced before, and you would I have no idea now.
[00:18:01.300] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, you can't see that at all, can you?
[00:18:02.240] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah. I think it's one of those things, where for me, until now, piercings have been a semi-permanent body modification, I suppose. So I have two questions specifically that I want to ask you. The first one is, would you mind telling us about your first tattoo, the design, and why you got that design?
[00:18:30.100] - Franziska (Guest)
It's a very specific tattoo. It is a woman who is more or less bending over. She's wearing, I think it's a blanket, a dress or blanket, and you can see her behind.
[00:18:44.540] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, her bottom.
[00:18:45.960] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:18:46.580] - Oliver (Host)
Her arse, if we used, uh, British slang.
[00:18:48.770] - Franziska (Guest)
Exactly.
[00:18:50.050] - Oliver (Host)
I remember when you got that done because her whole body is covered by this blanket apart from her calves, like the second, the bottom half of her leg, and her bottom. And I remember thinking, it can't be that she's exposing her bottom to us, the viewer, so it must just be a weird artistic quirk, basically an accident of the tattoo. And now, seen in the context of your whole body and all of the tattoos, it totally fits in with the styles that you've gone for, right? Yeah. But I remember being very British and not wanting to say to you: "it looks a bit like you can see her bum."
[00:19:36.930] - Franziska (Guest)
It is her bum. You can see it and it is her bum.
[00:19:40.900] - Oliver (Host)
I remember when you said that to me and I was like, "Right!" Okay, good, fine.
[00:19:46.620] - Franziska (Guest)
Why did I choose it? I actually saw a drawing by my tattoo artist, which was not frontal, but you could see the woman from the side. And I asked my tattoo artist if I could get this drawing as a tattoo. It's on my inner forearm. He said he can modify it so it fits with my body because he really likes to work with bodies. He wouldn't just put a picture on the body, but he wants it to work with how the body moves. I really like that approach. Then obviously, because it should work with the body movement, it ended up with the bum just looking straight at the other person. But yeah, it has a lot of meaning for me because Because I was thinking at that point that a lot of... British tattoo tradition or European tattoo tradition comes from, like Oliver said before, from sailors or prisoners, and very often naked or half naked women were portrayed. For me, I found it was kind of a reappropriation of the female body to get a half naked woman on my own body. I think another very important aspect for me was that my tattooed woman is not showing her her bum to other people, to a viewer, to a male gaze, but she's very happy with herself and she reveals a part of herself for herself and secure in her femininity and her sexuality. It was important to me to subvert and change that image, I think.
[00:21:23.530] - Oliver (Host)
It's funny. I mean, this is very in keeping with the things that we talk about, right? Because we have quite a lot of arguments, not about "feminism", because I think that, obviously, from the point of view of what is a feminist, someone who believes in equality between men and women, obviously, we're both feminists - we both believe in the equality of men and women. But we have a lot of discussions about gender roles, don't we? This is amusing to me because that's totally in keeping with everything you always say. And you know, we argue about this so much.
[00:21:59.510] - Franziska (Guest)
But in a fun way, in an interesting way, I think.
[00:22:02.080] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, of course. But I think at the end of the day, this more than anything else, I really couldn't express a different opinion because it is literally on your body. I think that that's one where no one can really tell you at all how you should think or anything.
[00:22:18.430] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, but no one needs to see it that way. It's just you yourself, if you have a tattoo.
[00:22:22.610] - Oliver (Host)
But I think what if some guy says to you, "Ha! I can see her arse."
[00:22:28.260] - Franziska (Guest)
When, when I got it, I actually worked as a nanny. And this five-year-old boy I was working with at that point, he was like, "Oh, my God, you can see her bum-bum". Then he put his hands in front of his mouth, and then he said, like, "And you can't even wash it away."
[00:22:47.550] - Oliver (Host)
This is a very switched on 5 year old, to understand it was, like, irremovable - you can't remove it. Okay, well, lovely. This hadn't occurred to me before you said that, but you've got various women on your body. Do you have any men?
[00:23:01.700] - Franziska (Guest)
No. I have a couple, but a female couple.
[00:23:05.330] - Oliver (Host)
Sorry to interrupt you, but just for the clarification for you, Listener, she said, "I have a couple", which can mean a romantic couple of two people, or it can mean a couple of things. I thought at first that she meant a couple of tattoos, but she actually means a romantic couple of people.
[00:23:22.290] - Franziska (Guest)
No, I have a romantic couple of people, and they were first meant to be a man and a woman. Then I decided I do not want any man, a man on my body at all.
[00:23:31.590] - Oliver (Host)
Interesting.
[00:23:32.470] - Franziska (Guest)
I have a Babylonian, Babylonian - Babylonian?
[00:23:37.370] - Oliver (Host)
Babylonian.
[00:23:38.150] - Franziska (Guest)
It's like, some kind of, a sign. I think it was on a coin. It was printed on a coin, and it's two mermen, but they're neither male nor female. I have two non-male or female characters on my body, but the romantic couple I have is female because I did not want any male figure on my body.
[00:24:01.460] - Oliver (Host)
OK. So, you mentioned the first tattoo, this selectively naked woman.
[00:24:07.260] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:24:07.700] - Oliver (Host)
Was the first one that had a lot of meaning to you. Once you've had as many as you've had, it's inevitable that some you prefer more than others. I suppose you could say that that's not the case - like children, you love them all equally in your own special way. But, are there any that you actually regret, as I talked about in my speech?
[00:24:34.950] - Franziska (Guest)
No, I don't regret any tattoo. It is not like you said that I all love them equally because I do have my favourites.
[00:24:41.660] - Oliver (Host)
Just like my mum.
[00:24:43.440] - Franziska (Guest)
Exactly. But I don't regret any tattoo because I would find it silly to regret a tattoo because there is a reason why I decided for each tattoo I've gotten. I think maybe you would regret a tattoo. It's something that I can't imagine applying to my life. But if you get something offensive, then obviously regret it. But otherwise, I think tattoos are fun. Even if you later wouldn't get them again, they represent a part of your life.
[00:25:17.000] - Oliver (Host)
I mean, that is actually… There are so many different things that we could talk about. But for example, I'm looking at you now and the only one I can see, I can only see two: I can see a cobweb on your knee, and I can see a kind of a series of butterflies on your neck, but quite a cool, kind of, stylised butterfly. Is it a butterfly or a moth?
[00:25:36.900] - Franziska (Guest)
No, it's three butterflies.
[00:25:38.950] - Oliver (Host)
But you can imagine a situation in which some extremist group might adopt one of those symbols, for example, just those ones. Can you imagine what you would do? For example, the style of butterfly you have, because it's quite particular, were very similar to some extremist group symbol. That would be awful.
[00:26:00.170] - Franziska (Guest)
That is very unlikely, but very awful, and I would get them changed. I wouldn't get them removed because I actually read that the pain of removing a tattoo is much worse than getting a tattoo. I don't think I could go through it on my neck, on my throat. So I think I would get them changed, I would get something added.
[00:26:18.870] - Oliver (Host)
So I have a final question then, as I promised in my speech. What advice do you have for anyone considering getting a tattoo?
[00:26:30.730] - Franziska (Guest)
I think it is very important to overcome that initial fear of, "I can't decide, what if I don't like it later? What if I regret it?" Because if you go through with it, you will be proud of yourself because you go through so much pain. If you like the design, there is no way you're going to regret it. It's just like maybe in - there are a few tattoos, maybe I would say now, "Oh, I got them eight years ago, but I wouldn't get it exactly the same." But I still like them because I know they're good designs. I know why I got them. They're still beautiful. And you can always add a different one if you want something different.
[00:27:08.130] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah. I mean, you actually sometimes see people change tattoos, don't they? And it's incredible what a skilled artist can do in terms of taking something that someone's changed their mind about it, or the original artist didn't do a good job or didn't do what they wanted, and they totally reimagine it.
[00:27:28.070] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, absolutely. What I also think and have been thinking is, I have not started getting tattoos at a very young age. I was thinking, my body is going to age in a few years anyway. So it's not like I have this beautiful, young, perfect body for so many years, and I think it's fun when you age and you have tattoos. It's much more fun to age with tattoos than without.
[00:27:50.360] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, I agree because people say, what is it going to look like when you're old? But then what does the body look like when you're old anyway?
[00:27:57.710] - Franziska (Guest)
Exactly. I think it will be fun to have an old wrinkly tattooed body.
[00:28:01.400] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, I can see that that's going to be the very least interesting. I think people already don't expect you seeing you - because you dress in a way often that you actually can't see them.
[00:28:12.870] - Franziska (Guest)
Yeah, because I'm always cold.
[00:28:15.320] - Oliver (Host)
I would never expect you to have the tattoos that you have, just from your personality. I imagine that'll be even less the case when you're 70.
[00:28:23.050] - Franziska (Guest)
I know. And I'm looking forward to that, actually. It will be fun.
[00:28:25.540] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah. Okay, well, speaking of things that were fun, thank you for coming. I really enjoyed this episode.
[00:28:31.370] - Franziska (Guest)
Thank you. Me too.
[00:28:32.700] - Oliver (Host)
So, Listener, I hope you enjoyed it, too. Please do rate, subscribe, share, and all the other things that we ask you to do. I'd be very grateful. And if, as I said at the beginning, if you have any problems with the episode or any episode, or if you want to practise some of the complicated vocabulary, like Babylonian, then you can have a look at the flashcards that we publish on morethanalanguage.com. Until next time. Thank you very much!
[00:29:03.440] - Franziska (Guest)
Bye!
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