NEW - Quizlet Flashcards: click here for link to vocabulary cards from this episode
[00:00:01.600] - Oliver (Host)
Welcome back to English and Beyond, an Advanced Level podcast for English learners. If you want to use the transcript and practise vocabulary using flashcards, you can find these resources on www.morethanlanguage.com. You may notice that I said that this is an advanced podcast now. This change is due to the fact that virtually all the listeners that that have given me feedback on the podcast, either on the survey, on the website or by email, describe themselves as advanced and so I feel like I've been neglecting my intermediate level listeners.
[00:00:39.130] - Oliver (Host)
As a result, César and I are going to produce a new Intermediate level of podcast consisting of slower-paced monologues, based closely on César's very successful intermediate Spanish podcast. New episodes in that series will be published every Monday, starting next week. Go and check it out. But if you feel like you're still an intermediate learner but actually enjoying this podcast, please do stick around.
[00:01:06.570] - Oliver (Host)
For today's episode I wanted to feature, to invite a salt of the earth typical Brit. Unfortunately, and pretty surprisingly for me actually, I have zero British friends in Valencia so far. This is not a deliberate choice, as such - I genuinely just haven't found the right opportunities to meet other Brits yet, despite everybody telling me that Valencia is positively crawling with them.
[00:01:35.870] - Oliver (Host)
That said, few people in the world are currently more British than César, at least in terms of novelty. After an English language test, the infamous Life in the UK test, and a somewhat long wait, César officially became a British citizen last year. At his ceremony he swore an oath of allegiance to King Charles III, along with around 150 other people from different nationalities. Now, for César, this wasn't really a big change, this oath. He had already lived under a monarchy his entire life in Spain, but for an American or a French person, let's say, pledging allegiance to a hereditary monarch would be an entirely different proposition.
[00:02:27.060] - Oliver (Host)
This got me thinking about the British Royal family, its role in modern British life and its influence as an example of British soft power, that is the influence a nation has through culture rather than military strength. The monarchy is one of Britain's most recognisable exports, shaping perceptions of the UK worldwide. Other examples include the British film industry with global franchises like James Bond and Harry Potter, British music legends from The Beatles to Adele, and of course the English language itself, as a global lingua franca.
[00:03:08.870] - Oliver (Host)
Like any long lasting institution, the royal family has evolved. While most European countries abolished their monarchies, Britain's has survived partly by reinventing itself as many times as Madonna. Today it functions as a national brand rather than any kind of ruling power. That said, it's arguably a relic of a different era, nonetheless. The monarchy exists because of an implicit agreement between the British people and the institution of the monarchy. We overlook its contradictions and problems in exchange for continuity, tradition, and, of course, spectacle. After all, what would the Royal Family represent nowadays? No one genuinely believes that the Royal Family is a collection of the nation's brightest, most capable, or even most attractive individuals. They weren't chosen for their leadership skills. If you're religious, I suppose, you might believe that they're divinely placed, given that the monarch is head of the Church of England. But logically, their role in a modern democracy is difficult to justify. And perhaps for this reason, British attitudes towards the monarchy remain complex.
[00:04:29.680] - Oliver (Host)
The Royal Family is vast, with members who range from well loved to deeply controversial. Polling from early 2024 found that the most popular royals, Prince William and Kate, the Princess of Wales and the Duchess of Cambridge, had the support of 60% of Britons, with only 10% holding a negative view. But that's not to say, absolutely not to say, that dissent does not exist. Republicanism, the movement to abolish the monarchy, has grown. However, that said, 39% of people in Britain still believe that ending the monarchy would harm the country, and only 23% think it would be an improvement. 29% believe it would make no real difference at all. Personally, I've always been a weak monarchist. Royalty in 2025 does feel outdated. The idea to me that they're somehow above the rest of us is absurd. And yet, like many Britons, I find comfort in the traditions, the history, and sometimes, if we're honest, the drama. And I also just think that if you're going to have a royal family, it's probably the most famous in the world, and I think it's a good thing to have for that reason.
[00:05:49.590] - Oliver (Host)
But the modern royal family has definitely had its share of crises. The 1990s were particularly infamously bad: royal divorces, Windsor Castle burning down, and of course, most notably, the death of Princess Diana. The today they still face scandals, some serious enough to make their supporters question their loyalty. But I think the reason republicanism hasn't gained more traction is that in practical terms, the debate feels, frankly, almost irrelevant. King Charles is technically our head of state, but his real power is minimal.
[00:06:30.880] - Oliver (Host)
However, this certainly was not always the case. And to celebrate César's new Britishness and to discuss a little bit of extra British culture, hence the name of the podcast, we're looking back today at a time when César might have thought twice about taking on our nationality because of the situation, specifically with the royals. And we're going to look back at a time when the King had real control and the scandals were real problems that could rock an entire country.
[00:07:04.090] - Oliver (Host)
Certain dates and people define British history. Every single British school child knows the date 1066, which is the year of the Norman Invasion. And most will know Elizabeth I, the warrior queen who defeated the Spanish Armada. But the third historical fact that most Brits remember is this rhyme: divorced, beheaded, died; divorced, beheaded, survived. If you're wondering what beheaded means, it's being decapitated, having your head cut off. So the rhyme talks about two divorces, two executions, one natural death and one lucky survivor. Now, this isn't a riddle or an Agatha Christie mystery. It's the relationship history of one of the most notorious kings of England, Henry VIII.
[00:08:00.360] - Oliver (Host)
As a young man, Henry was everything that a king should be. He was tall, athletic, charming and well educated. He was a skilled musician, a talented jouster and fluent in several languages. But by his death in 1547, he was known more for his ruthlessness, paranoia and his extraordinary ability to consume food. So what changed? Well, most famously, an obsession with producing a male heir. In the 16th century, a king's most important duty, beyond avoiding invasion, of course, was securing the stability of his dynasty. Without a legitimate male successor, the country risked chaos. Henry's first wife, Catherine of Aragon, was a Spanish princess, the daughter of Isabella and Ferdinand. She had been married to Henry's older brother, but after his death, she wed Henry. Though respected highly as a queen, she failed in one crucial way: she didn't give him a son. She bore several children, but only Mary I survived into adulthood. Desperate, Henry sought to annul his marriage, to cancel it. But the Pope in Rome refused. Catherine was Spanish royalty and her nephew, Emperor Charles V, was one of the most powerful men in Europe. Allowing Henry to discard her in this way would have been an international humiliation.
[00:09:35.290] - Oliver (Host)
So Henry broke away from the Catholic Church. In 1534, he declared himself supreme head of the Church of England, cutting ties with Rome entirely. This led, as you can maybe imagine, to massive religious upheaval, the dissolution of monasteries and countless executions. But, of course, just breaking away from the Church didn't guarantee what Henry really wanted: a male heir. He ended up marrying five more times. And his second wife, Anne Boleyn, was intelligent and ambitious. But after she too, failed to produce a son, though she did give birth to Elizabeth I, she was executed for treason, adultery and incest - almost certainly fabricated, made up charges.
[00:10:26.850] - Oliver (Host)
His third wife, Jane Seymour, finally did bear a son, the future Edward VI, but she died herself soon after childbirth, leaving Henry half heartbroken. Anne of Cleves was a political match that Henry instantly regretted, and he had that marriage annulled within months. His next wife, Catherine Howard, was young and lively, but was accused of adultery as well, and executed at only 18 or 19 years old. Catherine Parr, his final wife, more of a caretaker by this point than a wife, outlived Henry, an achievement in itself.
[00:11:07.550] - Oliver (Host)
So through Jane Seymour, Henry did manage to get the son he had been desperately hoping for but his later three marriages may have been evidence of his hoping to obtain more male heirs, and potentially for good reason, because his son Edward ruled for only six years before dying in his mid teens. That said, history buffs will probably be glad that Henry failed to have more sons, because his daughters, Mary I and Elizabeth I, AKA, also known as, Bloody Mary and Elizabeth the Virgin Queen, were two of the most influential and iconic monarchs to sit on the English throne.
[00:11:48.910] - Oliver (Host)
Though infamous for his wives, Henry's true legacy was shaping British history. His break with Rome established Protestant England, a shift that defined religious and political struggles for centuries. His Church of England still exists today with the monarch as its head, all thanks to Henry's determination to secure a divorce. He also centralised power, making the monarchy more authoritarian and expanding the state. His reign saw the suppression of noble families, mass executions and the solidification of a powerful English bureaucracy. And his personality? Well, as we've said, Henry loved spectacle. He loved jousting, music, extravagant clothing and, of course, food. By the end of his life, he was so obese that he had to be lifted with a hoist.
[00:12:42.410] - Oliver (Host)
His injuries from jousting left him in constant pain, which many historians believe contributed to his paranoia and cruelty. So why, nearly 500 years later, do Brits still talk about Henry VIII, perhaps more than any other monarch? Because he was larger than life, literally and figuratively. And because his reign was full of betrayals, beheadings and power struggles. His personal life played out like a soap opera, full of doomed romances and political intrigue. So it's no wonder that he's been the subject of so many films and TV series. And in a way, all that ties back to the British monarchy today. Like Henry, the royal family is flawed, controversial and at times, completely absurd. And yet we can't seem to let them go. And we love to consume new series like The Crown. We can only be grateful that although their scandals can become a national embarrassment, even nowadays, at least we do not have to suffer under a bad king or a bad queen's rule anymore.
[00:13:55.340] - Oliver (Host)
Okay, so firstly, what do you think about it becoming an advanced podcast now?
[00:14:04.540] - César (Guest)
Well, I think it's something that, I mean, eventually, it had to happen, right?
[00:14:12.020] - Oliver (Host)
You don't, you don't care, right?
[00:14:14.120] - César (Guest)
No, I guess. I mean, I - that's the thing with podcasts. And it's talk, it's talking, someone who's got five podcasts now.
[00:14:23.300] - Oliver (Host)
Talking as someone. Talking as someone.
[00:14:26.120] - César (Guest)
I mean, as someone who's got like five, or six podcasts.
[00:14:29.560] - Oliver (Host)
Plus you're now producing...
[00:14:31.370] - César (Guest)
And producing, I'm a producer as well, yeah.
[00:14:33.920] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah. Of the Intermediate English.
[00:14:36.980] - César (Guest)
That's the thing that happens with podcasts, that you start the podcast with with one idea and then it evolves and you have to adapt to the audience. And so I think it's a really good idea that you are splitting the two levels, intermediate and advanced.
[00:14:52.920] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:14:53.190] - César (Guest)
And I'm sure many people will listen to both.
[00:14:55.740] - Oliver (Host)
Maybe. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, I've just recorded the first intermediate level podcast, so, you know, based on, based on, on something you've discussed previously in yours.
[00:15:07.160] - César (Guest)
Really well researched and...
[00:15:08.910] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, by you! But no, I mean, I enjoyed recording it. Anyway, I also enjoyed recording this, I thought. I think it's an interesting topic.
[00:15:18.400] - César (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:15:18.830] - Oliver (Host)
So, César, how do you feel, firstly, I suppose, is the proper first question for this podcast: how do you feel to be British?
[00:15:26.140] - César (Guest)
I'm very proud. I like it. I like having both - citizenships or nationalities? Can you say both? Is it the same?
[00:15:34.500] - Oliver (Host)
Okay.
[00:15:36.930] - César (Guest)
Obviously, England, or the UK -
[00:15:38.950] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:15:39.790] - César (Guest)
It's a really important country for me.
[00:15:42.050] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:15:42.630] - César (Guest)
I live the, the, the most part of my adult life.
[00:15:49.620] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, exactly. You've lived many more years in the UK than you have in Spain.
[00:15:55.000] - César (Guest)
As an adult. Yeah. So I consider myself very British in some aspects.
[00:16:01.840] - Oliver (Host)
It's funny, I think, as well, like, absolutely wanting to avoid political topics too much beyond the one that I'm specifically wanting to discuss. But people are, I think, in - I have witnessed a lot of conversations in Spain where it's come up that you are now British and Spanish people are often quite dismissive of it in a way that they're like, "Why would you want to do that?"
[00:16:24.640] - César (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:16:25.840] - Oliver (Host)
And are you actually quite defensive of it because...
[00:16:30.450] - César (Guest)
Yeah, well, firstly, I mean, I did it for practical, practical reasons, because the reality is that it's quite expensive. I think in the end it would be, it was around £2,000. The whole process, taking the exams, paying the fees, and it takes time. You have to bother some people for you, to sponsor you as a proper citizen.
[00:16:54.120] - Oliver (Host)
To vouch for you. To vouch for you.
[00:16:56.340] - César (Guest)
Yeah, thank you.
[00:16:58.370] - Oliver (Host)
That's to say, kind of to, to, to say that he is who he says he is and, you know, he's a reasonable person.
[00:17:04.800] - César (Guest)
Yeah, exactly.
[00:17:05.750] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:17:06.570] - César (Guest)
And, but apart from that, from those practical reasons I also wanted to do it. Because it's a country that I love, I felt, I've always felt very welcome in the country and my personal and professional career developed a lot throughout all the years I lived there. And we might live there in the future as well, so.
[00:17:31.900] - Oliver (Host)
We might.
[00:17:32.360] - César (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:17:32.820] - Oliver (Host)
Well, theoretically there will be no one British listening to you praising the UK. Yeah. But there might be, there might be some people who like the UK amongst the audience since they have chosen to listen to a British English podcast rather than an American one.
[00:17:50.010] - César (Guest)
What is the adjective for someone who loves the UK? Is it.
[00:17:54.210] - Oliver (Host)
I guess, I think it's like an Anglophile.
[00:17:56.220] - César (Guest)
Anglophile, I think.
[00:17:57.470] - Oliver (Host)
But I, I don't. I mean, who knows? Because there aren't any, so, I don't know.
[00:18:03.430] - César (Guest)
It's not an adjective that many people use.
[00:18:05.390] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah. So you've sworn an oath before the mayor of Camden, I think, to King Charles, as I said. So you've put all this effort in to become British. How do you feel about your second royal family? Because you already have one of your own.
[00:18:23.840] - César (Guest)
Yeah, I don't know. I'm quite indifferent. I got a really, really cool picture when I was little. I was like 5, 6. I went to Benidorm with my dad and there used to be a wax museum in Benidorm.
[00:18:36.250] - Oliver (Host)
Okay. I thought you were going to say that you bumped into Queen Elizabeth on Benidorm Beach.
[00:18:40.990] - César (Guest)
No, Benidorm is a city in Spain, in Alicante. I think 50% of the population there are British.
[00:18:49.180] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:18:49.620] - César (Guest)
Or British tourism is, is really popular there. And anyway, I went to the, to this museum and my dad took a picture of me with the Royal family, with the wax figures.
[00:19:01.980] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:19:04.680] - César (Guest)
And for many, many years I didn't know who they were every time I saw the picture. And, well, I guess, you know what, this is like, quite interesting because I have been a footman, which is basically like a lower rank butler, for the Queen.
[00:19:24.310] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:19:24.680] - César (Guest)
So I was a footman for the Queen, for a while.
[00:19:27.700] - Oliver (Host)
But...we should definitely say, especially since if we're going to talk about the Royal family and we're going to say something, I don't know, slanderous, we should definitely say that you haven't actually met the Queen or worked in the actual Royal household - instead, what did you do?
[00:19:42.420] - César (Guest)
Well, I met a queen.
[00:19:43.920] - Oliver (Host)
You met a fake queen because you met Imelda Staunton. So how did you meet Imelda Staunton? How were you a footman for her?
[00:19:50.760] - César (Guest)
Well, because I used to, when, when we were living in the uk, I used to do some extra work.
[00:19:56.170] - Oliver (Host)
Extras. Extras work. Because if you say, if you said, I did extra work, it sounds like you did "additional work".
[00:20:03.030] - César (Guest)
Okay, thank you.
[00:20:03.820] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah.
[00:20:04.160] - César (Guest)
So I used to work as an extra in films, TV shows like The Crown. So I was casted as. Oh, I was cast -
[00:20:13.730] - Oliver (Host)
You were cast.
[00:20:14.470] - César (Guest)
- as a butler, or the proper name was footman. And I can actually show a picture for the people who are watching the video.
[00:20:24.090] - Oliver (Host)
There you go. That's, that's an incentive to, to watch on YouTube, to see.
[00:20:28.310] - César (Guest)
I had to be clean shaved completely.
[00:20:31.720] - Oliver (Host)
You needed to be clean shaven.
[00:20:33.900] - César (Guest)
Thank you. And it was really cool. I was in the fake Buckingham Palace, in the film studio. I guess my first memory of the Royal family as well was when Lady Diana died. I guess everyone remembers where they were when Diana died, right? I was at the beach in, in Spain, and I remember people talking about that for many, many weeks. And I think that was my first memory of, from the British Royal family. And then, I haven't really, I'm quite indifferent with the British Royal family. I have more opinions with the Spanish one because -
[00:21:19.800] - Oliver (Host)
Because you grew up with -
[00:21:21.150] - César (Guest)
I followed their...yeah.
[00:21:21.800] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, you grew up with them. Yeah.
[00:21:23.920] - César (Guest)
The Spanish royal family has been even more corrupt than the British one.
[00:21:29.500] - Oliver (Host)
I'm not sure that you can say that César, because, you know, the, the rules for insulting the British Royal family are very lax, they're very relaxed. No one cares. But I think in Spain, you know, it's a little bit more controversial, legally, to criticise the royal family.
[00:21:45.510] - César (Guest)
I mean, this is just a fact. Like, one person went to prison and he was a member of the Spanish Royal family.
[00:21:52.450] - Oliver (Host)
So let's stick to the facts.
[00:21:54.220] - César (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. There have...Yeah. I think there have been some people in prison.
[00:21:59.030] - Oliver (Host)
I think (Queen) Leticia might come and, you know, knock on the door and take you to prison.
[00:22:04.010] - César (Guest)
She won't. I think she's actually a Republican. She's like the Troy horse.
[00:22:09.990] - Oliver (Host)
The Trojan horse. Yeah. So one of the funny things, though, is that we talk about the corruption, you talk about the scandals. There have been really big scandals in the UK with certain members of the Royal family recently. But the funny thing is that in comparison to the past, these scandals are so minor. Like, for example, we're talking about Princess Diana dying - not a Scandal, obviously, but a tragedy, especially for her family, for her sons. But imagine, imagine not only like the Queen dying, but - the Queen having her head chopped off because she's apparently had sex with her brother.
[00:22:53.130] - César (Guest)
Did that happen?
[00:22:54.150] - Oliver (Host)
And, well, that's, that's apparently, you know, that's why Anne Boleyn was executed, because she apparently was unfaithful to the King, her husband, failed to give him a son, apparently was a witch and was publicly executed. Can you imagine the level of scandal that is associated with that in comparison to what we have nowadays?
[00:23:16.940] - César (Guest)
It was wild. I went, before we left London, I went to the Tower of London because I had never been. And I learned more about these, all the execution, executions that happened there. And, yeah, it was quite harsh being a Royal back then.
[00:23:33.400] - Oliver (Host)
Well, it was risky.
[00:23:34.620] - César (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:23:35.040] - Oliver (Host)
Right? I mean, the funny thing, I suppose, is that if you marry into the Royal family now, you still run the risk of public shaming, difficulties in your, in your private and public life. So you look at Fergie, you know, the Duchess of York, I think.
[00:23:51.120] - César (Guest)
Fergus, the - Yeah, I know who she is.
[00:23:55.000] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, Sarah Ferguson. She's famously redheaded. And then you look at someone like Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex.
[00:24:03.120] - César (Guest)
Great actress.
[00:24:06.180] - Oliver (Host)
Yes. Famously in Suits and now living in the USA with Harry.
[00:24:11.980] - César (Guest)
Great podcaster now.
[00:24:13.510] - Oliver (Host)
Well, I, I don't think it lasted for very long.
[00:24:15.750] - César (Guest)
I listen. I listened to some of the episodes.
[00:24:18.900] - Oliver (Host)
If only Megan had had your same longevity with her career because, you know, she did, what, like, eight episodes or something?
[00:24:26.480] - César (Guest)
She might actually. She might listen to our Spanish podcast, maybe.
[00:24:30.400] - Oliver (Host)
I doubt it. And we're not going to try to, we're not going to try to make that a thing. So the last question that I want to ask is, would you like to live in a republic? If there were a referendum tomorrow in either the UK or Spain, what would you vote? Is there a referendum, to be clear, to, to get rid of the monarchy and create a republic that is an elected head of state, a president, instead of the King?
[00:24:58.410] - César (Guest)
I think five years ago, if you had asked me the same question, I would have said republic, definitely. Now I'm not that sure because I think that the answer is not simple. That's the reality. I'm in favour of meritocracy, but at the same time, meritocracy is almost impossible. You know, we have so many privileges because we have, we were born in the UK and Spain, obviously, the Royal families have an incredible amount of privilege. And for me, the issue is when they use that power and that privilege to even get richer or to even influence more, you know, in terms of politics. And they try to use their tentacles to achieve things for their own benefit when they're actually representing us all. So... But yeah, I think I would prefer republic.
[00:25:59.440] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah, I think I'd vote to have a monarchy still, which is probably a bit different for what I would have thought before. I don't think I've ever explicitly thought I want to have a republic. If I were Spanish, I might feel differently. I might be more tempted to have a republic. But I think that the British monarchy is so bound up with our image abroad.
[00:26:18.690] - César (Guest)
Yeah. With your brand.
[00:26:19.870] - Oliver (Host)
Yeah. And of kind of like being slightly old fashioned, a little bit twee. And I think that it's actually a very useful thing to have. And one of the examples I can give is that when I lived in Frankfurt, I think the Queen came to visit. I can't remember, I definitely didn't go. And another time King Charles went to, to visit Germany and on both of those occasions the Germans, loads of Germans went to go and see them. I can understand more with the Queen in a way because she was so old and she'd reigned for so long and she was so iconic. But with King Charles, who's a relatively new monarch and I think in the UK he's now become more popular since he's become King, I think people think he's handled the transition really well. But, you know, he was never that popular or eye catching as a monarch before and yet so many people went to go and see him. And I absolutely do not believe that if Keir Starmer wandered into a random square in, in Frankfurt, people would be crossing the city, crossing the state, to go and get a glimpse.
[00:27:29.470] - César (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:27:29.900] - Oliver (Host)
And I think that that is something that you're never going to get with a president, unless maybe you're the President of the United States. But I think that that is a really invaluable thing to have that level of soft power where the King of England, the Queen of England, the Queen of the UK, because for some reason especially, I think that the phrase "of England" is really famous in the USA, so - because they don't really understand often the distinction between the UK and England, you hear that phrase a lot. But to have the "King of England" be your king, I think is in many ways actually positive. And I also think you were talking about them using their power and their influence to corrupt, to kind of get more money. I don't actually think that happens in the UK that much, I think - I might be really naive, but I think that it's such a difficult job. I think it's, it must be horrible to be that famous, and -
[00:28:28.390] - César (Guest)
And for so long.
[00:28:29.370] - Oliver (Host)
And for so long. Yeah.
[00:28:31.310] - César (Guest)
You're always there.
[00:28:32.340] - Oliver (Host)
You're born into it.
[00:28:33.380] - César (Guest)
Yeah.
[00:28:33.780] - Oliver (Host)
And then you, and then it's till death. And then in addition, anytime you, and you know, you try, try to enjoy it - or you try to use kind of your influence or, or to, to spend some of your money - every penny that you spend will be judged by vast swathes of the population. And you're always going to be found inadequate, you're always going to be found wanting. And I think that that must be very hard.
[00:29:03.690] - César (Guest)
Yeah, I agree.
[00:29:05.590] - Oliver (Host)
So, César, thank you very much, as always, for talking to me.
[00:29:09.270] - César (Guest)
Thank you. Thank you, Oliver.
[00:29:10.960] - Oliver (Host)
Okay, well, thank you very much, listener, as always. Please subscribe, please follow, please share. César, please stop and I'll see you next time. Bye.
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